My Love For My Heartless Birthparents

I would give anything to be one of the adoptees who didn’t have any feelings about my birth parents. Why? Because then my pain wouldn’t be something I face on a daily basis, sometimes hourly. I would maybe be okay with being adopted?

I’ve learned all adoptees are different. Some of us are okay with not searching and never discovering our roots. Others need to know and they will never be okay unless they discover their truth. I would say on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being adoptees that are okay with their experience & not knowing their roots and 10 being those adoptees who have extreme issues with their adoption experience & not knowing their roots I’m way past a 10. Being adopted bothers me in every aspect. Now that I’m old enough to work through my emotions I’m experiencing and identifying REAL RAW FEELINGS. From 12-37 I used substances to numb my pain. I didn’t want to feel the emotions that go along with being handed over to strangers by the woman that should love me the most in life. Today, I’m thankful to be on a healing journey but sometimes the pain is unbearable. It’s hard to describe to non-adopted people. I would give anything to have a switch I could just shut off and not care about any of the things that bother me so much. I think because the things that bother me are so senseless and inhumane I don’t think any human should have to experience.  This means my VOICE is critical to the adoptee community, as is all the other fellow adoptees who share their voice. When God answered my prayers and made it possible for me to reunite and find all my biological family I made a promise to God, myself & all the adoptees out there. So many are lost searching to find themselves & their long lost families that I will never stop sharing how it feels to be adopted and offer support all the adoptees who feel hopeless and alone. I will never stop speaking about something that means so much to me. I will spend the rest of my days encouraging adoptees to use their VOICE in adoption. The VOICE that’s most often ignored.

I spent my entire childhood and most of my teen years fantasizing about them, specifically my birth mother. I always had her close to my heart. I dreamed of the day we would be reconnected again. I cried a million tears growing up not knowing where she was. I. I searched for her in my dreams, in grocery stores, at the gas station, walking down the street, at parks, the mall and everywhere else I traveled to. Of course I loved her. My heart loved her even when the world wanted me to forget all about her. I know I formed a bond with her before I was ever born, but the hope I had of an amazing reunion grew my love for her and some days that’s all I could think about.

After all,  “She loved me so much, she gave me away.” <–Explains My Adoptive Mom

Why wouldn’t I have love for her? It came natural to want her in my life. Everyone told me she loved me. So if she loved me, why wouldn’t she want me in her life when I did find her? What the  hell kind of LOVE is everyone talking about?  This messed me up and still has me messed up. A mother doesn’t LOVE their child and reject them after the child finds them. A mother doesn’t LOVE their child and give it away to strangers. That isn’t love. That’s abandonment & rejection in it’s rawest form.

The original abandonment and rejection I experienced before I found my birth parents was a tremendous amount of pain that never left me. Now, since finding both and being rejected by both my pain has been magnified a thousand times and the abandonment & rejection is so RAW that honestly I understand why so many adoptees commit suicide. (Read the stitistics!) This pain is no joke and in adoption the weak will NOT survive. I have so much respect for my fellow adoptees because the pain we face is so deep I believe we are the strongest people on the planet. I truly believe that!

Back to my topic…

My birth mother died about 18 years after us meeting just one time. She shut me out & lied to me. She promised she would send me letters, pictures, and cards in the mail and she never did. I waited on the mail my entire life!! Now I hate checking the mail & each time I do I get the deep sadness all over again that I wasn’t even worth a piece of mail to her. Even when she’s gone, I still wish I would magically open the mailbox and get just one letter she promised me. At least I would have something to keep that was from her. I know that’s complete nonsense to some people but I bet adoptees get it.  I wasn’t included in her obituary. This was horrible to experience. I didn’t count for anything in her life. But she loved me SO much? 

I’ve tried to take myself out of my shoes & put them in hers. I’ve tried to understand. What I gather from knowing what I know based off my experience is that my birth mother didn’t love me. She loved the idea of passing her mistake over to someone else. She loved that she didn’t have to be reminded daily of her actions of becoming pregnant by a married man. She could just pass me to strangers and never think twice about me again.  She didn’t love me because she drank alcohol the entire pregnancy. She loved alcohol, that’s what she loved. She never told me she loved me. She didn’t want a relationship with me. She didn’t include me in her obituary. Why was I so surprised?  One more fantasy to add to the life long list of fantasies adoptees have. I had a million & they were all rooted in speculation because I didn’t know my truth. This is only one aspect of adoption that messed my mind up. I read “The Girls Who went Away”. I totally get the aspect of things being totally different in the 50’s, 60’s & 70’s. But this had no waver on her rejecting me once I did find her. I also realize her pain may have been too great,  but if a mother “Loves” their child they will WANT them in their life. You can’t tell me any different.

After all I experienced w/ my birth mother and how her actions made me feel, I can honestly say if she appeared in front of my right now I wouldn’t do anything but run into her arms. I would give anything to get one real true hug from her.You know, the kid of hug a mother gives her beautiful daughter. I would give anything to hear her say “I Love You” just one time. That would mean that when I was told “She loved you so much she gave you away” it was true. Unfortunately I never received the confirmation she loved me at all. Today, I’ve learned to never go without telling those close to you that you love them. It maybe the only time they hear it and your last chance at telling them.

I’ve accepted the lie that was told to me, “Your birth mother loved you so much” was just that, a LIE.  I challenge ALL adoptive parents to be VERY CAREFUL in the words you use to share and explain things to your adoptive children. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. Not all birth mothers love their babies!

I met my birth father 2 x. He didn’t accept me as his daughter even when I look just like him. He could care less who I am, where I live, or anything to do w. me or my life. He knew nothing about me until I showed up at his door at 37 years old. This hurts. But if he showed up here today, I would also go running to him and be ready for anything he was able to offer. I know this isn’t going to happen. I’ve given up. It still hurts like hell.

After I finally was able to feel my feelings & start a recovery program I put everything out on the table. I was able to draw my own conclusions & connect the dots to the missing pieces of my history. I had to fight like hell to get my answers! People lied to me, and the expense of YEARS of memories with my long lost family. In learning my TRUTH I was able to accept it and begin to heal. I know I can’t change the past but I will spend the rest of my time on earth sharing my experiences on how it feels to be adopted & reaching out to other adoptees so they know they aren’t alone.

My love for my birth parents will ALWAYS be there. I don’t care if someone told me they were drug addicts, who were horrible people! It should be MY CHOICE weather I have them in my life nor not. No one should take this decision from us… Sadly in my case, neither of my birth parents wanted me in their life. I also have a biological sister who rejected me. We clashed after meeting, and we share opposing views on adoption because she followed in my birth mothers foot steps and gave one of her own children up for adoption. She doesn’t understand me, and I don’t understand her. We have no relationship because of it.  It never ends & for the life of me I will never understand how parents reject their own flesh & blood. I’m thankful I was able to make my own choice in searching and was able to meet them each at least 1 x and gain a better understanding of MY HISTORY. MY STORY!

In this journey acceptance is key but it isn’t easy. The question is, how are adoptees supposed to accept something if they don’t know what it is? It’s impossible!  How are we supposed to HEAL if we have nothing to accept? We’ve been fed so many lies and shenanigans that most adoptees don’t have any idea what their truth is! This has caused me the most heartbreaking pain anyone could ever imagine. To wait my whole life to meet them and be left with nothing in the end. No time, no memories, no nothing. I truly believe everyone in life leaves you, especially when your own parents discard you like a piece of garbage. I live in constant FEAR of this & I hate it.

What have I done to feel like I’m controlling something in my life? I moved across the country away from ALL my biological & adoptive family, I changed my number, changed my name and as soon as my kids graduate I’ll be moving again… I’m hoping to be untraceable to those who once rejected me. They will never have a chance to hurt me again. To them I’m the LOST one.. They can spend the rest of their lives wondering where I am, how I am and what I’m doing. Amazing how that script is flip isn’t it??!!! Chances are they don’t care, but I needed to do this for myself. I needed to feel like I controlled SOMETHING in my life! Of course, I have ONE relationship out of my biological family reunion I’ve kept and that’s my biological brother. I’ve closed all the doors on the rest, every single one. I’ve found they are too painful. adoptees understand this. My biological brother is amazing! He’s been accepting and I love him for that. Now I’ll spend the rest of my life mourning all that was lost. I’m not at a place of acceptance with that yet! As for my adoptive family, I have a small handful of one step brother, cousins, 1 aunt, and my adoptive dad & his wife I have in my life. I hold them all close to my heart. There are more who have crossed me in some way and I’ve dismissed them from my life. I have no problems dismissing people who bring unhealthy relationships my way. That’s a deep aspect to being adopted, we’ve lost EVERYTHING so losing more isn’t new to us.. It’s just part of our life!

As #FlipTheScript in November comes to an end, I would like to challenge ALL ADOPTIVE PARENTS to please help your adoptive child find their truth. Please help us find our history. Please don’t make us feel bad or guilty for wanting to know where we come from. This is natural for a unnatural situation.

For all the birth parents out there… I would just like to say that if you’ve made the choice to cut your biological child out of your life please know you are hurting them more than anyone could ever imagine! Please seek help and reconsider. No matter what the circumstances “Were” there is nothing to be afraid of now. Things are different. If anything PLEASE TELL THE CHILD YOU SURRENDERED YOU LOVE THEM IF YOU DO LOVE THEM. No child in the world should have to go through life never hearing “I LOVE YOU” from either of their biological parents.

If you made it this far, can you relate to any of my blog post? How do you feel about your birth parents?  What are you on the scale of 1-10?

Blessings,
Pamela Jones
@freesimplyme
http://www.facebook.com/howdoesitfeeltobeadopted

The Obituary Lied

I received a Facebook message in 2010 from my 1/2 biological sister whom hadn’t spoken to me in over 13 years.  Not by my choosing, she shut me out and I still to this day have no idea why she is the way she is. Not only did my birth mother not want anything to do with me, but after I found and was reunited with my birth sister she too shut me out. I never understood because when I first found her, she was ecstatic she had a long lost sister she said she always dreamed of. She invited me to be in her wedding, our children met one another, and it was the first time in my life I felt a true connection with someone with the same blood as me ever in my life. I can’t tell you the sense of joy I had knowing I had a big sister, that I could look up too, get advice from, be close with, and share stories with.

After a few years of meeting her as I would reach out she wouldn’t reach back. Over and over I would try to keep in touch, and she wouldn’t return my calls, letters, emails nothing. This honestly broke my heart a million times, and I never understood WHY. I always thought I did something to offend her, or upset her but I didn’t know what. I was clueless.

Not many years before my birth mother passed away I had basically given up hope that we would ever have the relationship I always dreamed we would have. That dream I had sense I was a little girl, sense the day I found out I was adopted. I knew at this point nothing was going to give, but in the back of my mind I think I always had that sense of “Maybe one day she will come around”. I never stopped thinking about her, or praying for her, or wondering what she was doing, especially around my birthday time.

But my birth sister, I never gave up hope, so when I got this inbox message saying my birth mother passed away, I was not only shocked but I was beyond hurt that I had to find out in a Facebook message. My birth sister hadn’t spoke to me in 13 years! She was acting as if our relationship was where it left off 13 years ago. As if the last 13 years went by and I hadn’t tried to reach out to her a million times, and she shut the door in my face, just like my birth mother did. They have no idea how that has hurt me over the years, and words can’t even describe it. Not only did I feel out of place growing up in a house full of strangers, but the biological roots I dreamed of my whole life didn’t even want me around. They didn’t want to know me, love me or have me in their lives. THIS HURT and still does.

When I got the Facebook message my immediate response was angry. I was so angry that she told me the way she did! After a few hours when my anger subsided a bit, I realized that in true honesty she didn’t have to contact me at all. I had to try to pull something positive out of this. In her facebook message she expressed how she really wanted me to be there, and she didn’t think she could do it without me. I had a decision. I could either go, be there for her, and perhaps find some more information out about my birth father whom I also always dreamed about knowing, I could find out more information about my birth mother, and meet some of her life long friends, and meet some more of my biological family OR I could stay home and wish I had went.

After making some arrangements with my job, and for my kids off to Iowa I go. I started off on a 10 hour drive, all alone. Something about taking road trips are always so refreshing but not this time. I was nervous, sad, anxious, and I surly didn’t know what the next few days were going to hold. I was just praying, and talking to God the whole entire way for him to help shine his light on me because I knew I was going to need it to get through the next few days.

Soon I was to arrive in Iowa at my adopted mothers house. It is no secret to anyone in my life that we have never EVER gotten along. We are like night and day, and there has never been a time in my life where I feel close to her, or have a bond with her a mother and daughter are supposed to have. I just all the way missed out on that in life. She is a very different person, and after being almost 40 years old I have come to the conclusion that she is mentally sick, and she is a very ill person. She should have never been given the right to adopt a child, let alone two. She wasn’t and still isn’t capable of being a mother. I will never understand how a couple ends up adopting two children, divorcing a year later leaving these two adopted children to be raised in a very dysfunctional home, by a woman whom doesn’t have the capabilities, strength, guidance or understanding to raise children!

After being at my adopted mothers for a hour or so, we decided to take a trip to the grocery store. I was going to stay all night at her house, then leave very early the next morning to drive to Waterloo, Iowa where my birth mother lived. This is where her funeral was going to be held. I was really a nervous wreck. While we were at the grocery something in me decided I wanted to search for my birth mothers obituary online via my cell phone. When I start searching for something, or someone Its crazy but I get frantic almost obsessed until I find what I’m looking for! I think character trait has a big part on me searching and finding my biological family all on my own. I was obsessed with finding them, and I was never going to give up until I saw them all, even if it meant getting shot by showing up on my birth fathers property unannounced! I was going to find them.

As I Google searching for the obituary, walking around in circles in the grocery store waiting on my adopted mom to take her time shopping, (One of our many differences, she takes all day to shop! I get in and get out!)  I finally found the obituary. As I started to read it, my heart started racing more and more. I couldn’t even believe what I was reading. SHE DIDN’T LIST ME ANYWHERE! NO WHERE! SHE DOESN’T HAVE JUST ONE CHILD!  SHE WAS A LIER! THIS OBITUARY WAS A LIE! I AM HER DAUGHTER TOO, AND SHE HAS 3 OTHER GRANDKIDS AND WE ARE ALIVE. I DROVE ALL THE WAY TO IOWA TO BE AT HER FUNERAL BUT THEY COULDN’T EVEN LIST ME IN THE OBITUARY OR MY CHILDREN! I WAS SO MAD AND HURT!

I immediately started to cry in the middle of the grocery store. Of course I felt I had to hide it from my adoptive mother, because she just wouldn’t understand. So I kept walking around the store, trying to hide my tears from all the people walking by me. I know that some people might not understand the big deal, or why I was feeling the way I was feeling but when you spend a lifetime fantasizing, dreaming and wishing, and wondering about the very woman that created you, and gave you away to have a “better life” but she doesn’t even list you in her obituary it hurt really bad, and cut like a knife. My mind goes back there, to that time in my life and I still cry thinking about it. I don’t understand how someone can give their child away, and act as if they didn’t even exist. I will never understand it.

After I finally got myself together in the grocery, I would soon see my adoptive mother again. She knew by the tears in my eyes something was wrong. She asked, and I told her. I started to cry again. I just walked away from her and told her I would be in the car. In no way did I want her sappy ass rubbing me on my back making it worse! She always made everything worse!

Soon the very next morning had arrived, and it was time to set out on my hour long drive to the very city where I was born, and given away. To the very city my biological mother, and half of my biological family lived. It was a very bitter sweet drive, and time in my life. Something about discovery of your roots, and where you come from is almost eerie to me, and I have done all this alone and I can look back now and rejoice that I had a relationship (And still do) with God, my higher power for hugging me and holding me the entire way. I’m blessed and thankful for that.

My birth sister and her husband moved from Iowa to Arkansas, so they too had to travel back to Iowa for the funeral.I arrive at the hotel where my birth sister and her husband and kids were staying I was a nervous wreck. I hadn’t seen her in ALONG time! I hadn’t talked to her in 13 years, but I hadn’t seen her in about 16 years. I parked my car, and head in to the hotel. Knock on her hotel door, and see her face, and we gave each other a big hug. It was great to see her, and I realized that I couldn’t focus on the past, and be upset with her that for whatever reason she shut me out for the last 13 years. I was still hurt, but I had to make a decision to not focus on that. She expressed to me how bad she wanted me there, and how thankful she was that I came. I got to hug and see my niece and nephew, one I had never met before. I was very excited about that, but yet I was deep down very sad that so many years had passed and they really didn’t even know me. It’s not my fault and if I had it my way It wouldn’t be like that. I would have never been separated from any of them ever if I had it my way. I would have grown up in the same house as her, and we would have been close sisters growing up. She gave me a card, and we all headed over to the funeral home for my biological mothers visitation.

The card was an apology for her being absent for the last 13 years. She was very nice in the card, and she expressed how she was sorry that this tragic event is what brought us together again. She said in the past, I was the one to reach out and she failed. She hoped this would be a new beginning to our relationship. I was happy about the card, and I was happy I was getting to see her, and spend some time with her. I was deeply saddened that so much time had passed, and I really didn’t know when I was going to see her again. Was it going to be another 13 years?

My birth sister and my birth mother hadn’t spoke in over 3 years. So I wasn’t the only person they didn’t reach out too. They didn’t even reach out for each other. My birth sister said many times that my birth mother was an alcoholic. She said after her and her husband and children left Iowa, they went back for a visit at Christmas time only for my birth mother to not open the door for her, or her children on Christmas morning. I really don’t know the whole story, or my birth mothers reasoning, but I am sure my birth sister had a very good reason for being upset with her. A long drive from Arkansas to Iowa and your own mother doesn’t open the door? Shame on her. I would be furious too. I can’t say what I would do, but she didn’t speak to her for 3 years. When she did have contact with her again, it would be to bury her.

We soon set out to head to the funeral home. I really didn’t know what to expect. I know from the moment I walked in there, to the time I left I felt so out of place. I knew my birth sister wanted me there, but there is no way my birth mother wanted me there. I was her best kept secret. I knew this for certain. We went in for the viewing. I was shocked at what I saw. My birth mother that was in her mid 60’s and looked as if she was much older. She was wearing a blue jean button up Christmas shirt, glasses and had a few rings on her fingers. She was always lean and long. Her fingers looked like my fingers. I wanted so bad to ask if I could have one of her rings on her fingers, but I didn’t dare. After all I felt as if I was a nobody. I really would to have loved it for sentimental reasons. I had nothing of hers, absolutely nothing. Nothing but a broken heart from this woman. Time after time, and year after year I wanted on her calls, mail, only to receive broken promises after broken promises.

As we sat in the front row, I sat right next to my birth sister. I really felt like her husband should be sitting by her but I respect the fact that she let me sit next to her, and that she acknowledged the fact that I was her daughter too, and I had every right to be there just like she did.

My birth mother planned her service out down to the very last minute. She had someone get up and speak about her life, and some of the things she loved. Rod Stewart, Nascar, Elvis, and some other things. He spoke about her daughter, Joanna and her 3 grand kids from Arkansas. I honestly sat there and wept not only because I was deeply saddened, but because she once again didn’t acknowledge that I was her daughter. Some of you might say, “Well DUH Pamela! She gave you away! You were no longer her daughter!”. You would think it wouldn’t be so hard for me to just “GET IT”, or “GET OVER IT”, but I will never forget that time in my life when they clearly made me feel as if I was nothing. I wonder if she knew how much pain she caused me? I wonder if she even cared? People shouldn’t have to go through life being rejected and denied from the very people that created them.

This is the song that she had requested be played at her funeral. I will never in my life forget this song. I cry every time I hear it, and can’t help but wonder what part of her giving me up for adoption had an impact of her and her life, and this song. If you listen to the words, (please do!) you will understand what I’m talking about. Was I one of the many regrets she is speaking about? I stayed around after the service, so I could meet some of her friends, and some biological family. It was really hard to get through this time in my life. I was thankful I had my birth sister there, but yet she was still so far away. I didn’t know any of those people. My birth sister kept introducing me as “This is my sister, my mom gave up for adoption!”. I really didn’t know what to think, but I was thankful she was even introducing me at all. I had to be thankful I was even there at all because she didn’t have to invite me, or tell me if she didn’t want too. As I got to know some of my birth mothers friends, they all expressed to me how stubborn she was, and how she was very strong willed. She was set in her ways, and no matter what in life she did it her way!

I met my birth mothers best friend, and she knew my birth mother the time she was pregnant with me. She said she remembers her giving me up for adoption. No way did anyone at the funeral try to console me, and what I was going through. I don’t think any of them understood my pain at all. I asked her if she knew any information about my biological father, but she declined. I asked her if she drank when she was pregnant with me, and she said, “Honey I never saw her without a drink in her hand”. I guess I’m supposed to be grateful for that just like I am that I’m adopted. I spoke to a few other people, and met a biological aunt. One aunt that I had met the first time I met my birth mother wasn’t there. I asked about her, but everyone said she was sick, and couldn’t come. I asked my birth sister if we could go visit her, because I realized this might be my last chance at finding out more information about my biological father. On the way to her house I asked my birth sister if we could go by my birth mothers house. She said, “Oh you don’t want to go over there!”. I said, “Yes, I do, I really do”. Off we go.

When my birth mother died, she passed away from alcoholism, and COPD. She smoked, and was on oxygen, and she was an alcoholic all at the same time. These are the things that killed her. I believe alcoholism is what really killed her. Everyone at her funeral said for the last few years of her life, she wouldn’t let anyone in her house, NO ONE. The neighbors would come to bring her food, or try to help her shovel snow in the winter, or help her with a leaking roof and her response to everyone that came to her door was ” GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!”. I had no idea what to expect when we arrived at her house. I remember walking up to the front door, her house almost looked like a little cottage but you could tell it had some major repairs that needed done, but you didn’t really see it until you walked inside. Her front door had broken glass through the front window, and she had news paper, and duct tape and a piece of plastic over it to keep the cold out. As we walked in I just got such an eerie feeling. This was the house that my birth mother lived in for many many years. It wasn’t the house she was pregnant with me at, but it was the house that my birth sister grew up in. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw how dusty everything was. The dust was literally an inch thick. I looked over to the left, and saw another broken window covered just like the other one. Also to the left was about 6 oxygen tanks, all empty. She had papers and clutter all over her dining room table, and hutch. As you walked in further I saw the couch that she was found on. The old dusty mantel, and drapes matched the couch. The whole place looked like a scene from a 1975 movie. NOTHING WAS UPDATED! Everything was so old, and dusty. It was filthy, and the floor was covered with garbage, and junk. The carpet looked like it was 30 years old, and I’m not even kidding. It was so cold in there, and I will never forget the feeling I got when I was in her house. It was so dark, and dingy. Complete filth couldn’t even touch it. I saw a little green paper weight on her coffee table, shaped like a small elephant. I kindly asked my birth sister if she cared if I have it. She said, “Sure take it”. This small paper weight is the only thing I will ever own that was my birth mothers. My birth sister took me through the house, and it’s hard for me to explain the feeling I got. After we noticed no running water, and rat droppings all over, we decided it was time to go. That house should have been condemned in my opinion.

Some people might be saying,”WOW- and you aren’t HAPPY she gave you up for adoption?”. NO, No I’m not. I would have taken my birth mother any way she came. I would have loved to be with my biological roots, even if she made mistakes as a mother, I would have forgiven her. All of her mistakes and errors in life wouldn’t change the fact that she gave birth to me. I will never stop thinking about her, or wishing I knew her. I will always love the woman I never got to know.

After we left my birthmothers house, we headed over to visit my aunt for a few minutes. When we arrived the house was filled with smoke, and we could smell that she had been smoking. Its amazing that the crazy part is she looked at both of us and said “I quit smoking awhile back”.. Even thoe we smelled right through that lie. This was my birthmothers sister. She was also a smoker, and on oxygen suffereing from COPD which is what my birth mother died from. After we visited a few minutes, I got up enough nerve to ask her if she knew who my birth father was. I thought I had nothing to loose. She ended up giving me a name, and told me a little about my birth father. Now I recieved confirmation who he was and where he lived. A month after visiting my biological aunt she passed away from COPD. I look back and I’m in awe the way God set it up. Not that I wanted her to die, but he let me find out my confirming information about my birthfather before she passed away, and it meant so much to me to be able to see her one last time.
Leaving Waterloo, Iowa was a bitter sweet moment for me, but so was my experience after I drove to my birthfathers door step. Leaving Iowa on this trip I made a very brave decision. I could either drive back to Kentucky and never see who my birth father was, or I could drive 3 hours out of the way and show up at his door step and introduce myself.  I was able to receive some confirming information while I was in Waterloo about my birth father. I prayed, and God answered my prayers. I drove 3 hours out of the way to his house, but I only stayed 45 minutes. I left Leon, Iowa and my life would never be the same.